From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
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| o_,_7 _|| . _o_7 _|| 4_|_|| o_w_, |
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Jews/Christians/Muslims
(Part 1: Is there any similarity?)
The following was sent a few months ago. Now it is going to continue:
The sequence of articles is important because some of conclusions are
not valid until the last article.
--------------------------------
Sahih Muslim,
Rendered into English by
Abdul Hamid Siddiqi
Printed at Hafeez Press,
Sh.Muhammad Ashraf
Kashmiri Bazar, Lahore(Pakistan)
--------------------------------
Chapter MCXII, titled as
Following the footsteps of the jews and the christians
#6448
Abu Said Alkhudri reported Allah's messenger (May peace be upon him)
as saying: You would tread the same path as was trodden by those
before you inch by inch and step by step so much so that if they had
entered into the hole of the lizard, you would follow them in this
also. We said: Allah's messenger, do you mean Jews and Christians
(by your words)"those before you"? He said: Who else(than those two
religious groups)?
#6449
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Atab b. Yasar
through another chain of transmitters.
-------------------------------------
The same hadith is given in Sahih Bukhari with a little difference of
translation. Here it comes:
-------------------------------------
The translation of the meaning of Sahih al-Bukhari
Arabic-English
Dr. Mohammad Muhsin Khan
Islamic University, Medina al-Munawwara
Kaze Publications.
1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)
---------------------------------------------------
-------
9.422:
-------
Narrated Abu Sa'id al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, "You will follow the ways of those nations who were
before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so
much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure, you would
follow them." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and
the Christians?" He said, "Whom else?"
------------------------------------------------------
Also shiat has narrated the similar traditions through its own reliable
narrators. As I recall, you can locate such traditions in Tafaaseer
under the
Sourah[84] Aayah[19]
Laterkabonna tabagan an tabagen
Sourah: ensheghagh
------------------------------------------------------
O.K. Let see if anybody can go through the hole of a lizard(!!??)
Since I have not seen such creature among human beings, I answer
to myself that this is not possible. There is no way that even a thin
man can pass through the hole of a lizard. If not, then what these
traditions mean? The way that this example is given in these
traditions confirms the case of impossible acts. I conclude,
therefore, that if any of Jews and/or Christians have done an
impossible action, the same action would be perfomed by a muslim too.
Some of you may have already been searching for these traditions since
they seem very strange. Will muslim worship an idol as Jews did when
they worshipped a caw figure? Will muslims kill prophets while we know
that there is no prophet after Mohammad(SAS)? Then what these traditions
mean? How about the miracles that Muses and Jesus performed? How about
the distortion they made on their books? Will muslim change their book
by their hand? Will they think that Jesus is the son of God? and
thousands of these questions. One more point:
Will the sequence of events be kept in the same way?
For example, will there be Jesus after Yahya(Jashowa, I think)?
We know that it is almost impossible to imagine muslims to worship
Jesus as the son of God, to worship caw instead of true God, to go for
hunting on Saturday as Jews did. What I can conclude from the traditions
is that the similar action will be done, but not exactly the same
action. For example, it is been told that the prophet warned muslims
about different interpretation of Quran:
You will not change anything inside of Quran as previously
done in the bible(Torat and Enjil), but you will certainly
change the meaning of aayaat(verses) of Quran.
To me, there is no difference between these two events. In both cases
you can hardly detect the truth since you usually do not follow the
original sources of the religion and you listen to others(scholars)
instead of searching for yourselves. There is no difference between
changing the bible and misleading people through the interpretation of
the Quran. What I conclude is that the similar acts would be done by
muslim people. They may not kill a prophet after the prophet since
there is no prophet. But it is not hard to imagine that some of them
may have attempted killing their best knowledgeable men (scholars,
...)
How about the sequence of events? Surely there is no point in these
two traditions that the sequence of events will be untouched. The
words"inch by inch" is interpreted inside of the hadith:
such that if one did XXXX, you will do XXXX too
As the result, the sequence of events are not kept. In other words,
similar act to worshipping caw may not happen exactly in the time of
the prophet as it happened in time of muses. However, it may happen at
the end of time. Although Jesus will not appear as the prophet to
introduce christianity, he will come at the end of times as narrated.
I summerize the conclusion I would like to make in this article:
1)- The very similar events would take place for Muslims people as
they happened for Jews and Christians. In case that the act is
possible, muslims MAY do the EXACT act as others did. (I will explain
what I mean by "possible" in my next articles.)
2)- The sequence of events are not necessarily preserved. For some
cases, this sequence MAY be maintained.
In next article, I will, insha-allah, talk about some attitiudes of
present muslims which are attributed to Jews and Christians.
***************************************************************************
From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Jews/Christians/Muslims (Part 2: Hiding the Truth)
* The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses,
yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books*
Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of
Allah* And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk (Quran 62:5)
| c | .. | | | | . | | |c
_o_| _o_; O | q_;_| | | q_|_o_7 . _; ]_| | |_;_o
( ( / / / (_).. (_|
| | . | | | | | |c / | |
| |_o_w | |_o_7_; |_o_7_| | |_;_o_) |_8 q_|_o_7_;
/ (_| .. / (_| / ..
.. | | | . / . | | .. | | |c s
___; |_; |_; | q_; ]_) . _; ]_| | _o q_o_| | |_;_o w_;_;
.. . /. (_).. ( / (_| (_/ .
| ||. | | .. | | | | | | | | | |
* . _;_o_| |_D_| | _o q_o_| | ]_8_; |_| 4_|_| | q 4_|_| |
(_).. ( / (_S .. /
In part one, I proved that there are similarities among Jews,
Christians, and Muslims. The above verse is apparently about Jews.
Just around and among yourselves (Muslims). Don't you see those who
close their eyes and ears and hearts and do not look at their book of
Allah, and the evidences from their own book?
They prefer to deny the orders of Allah, and insist in their
ignorance.
And do not mix up the truth with the falsehood, nor hide the
truth while you know (it) (Quran 2:42)
| .. /.. || | | | .. | | | |.. | |
| q_o_;_)_; q |_D |_;_| |_; q_7_| | | q_w_;_|_; |_| q
/ / (_| . . (_/ / . /
| .. ... | .. | |
* . q_o_|_e_; _o_;_; | q q_7_| |
(_) / ( / (_/
O followers of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with the
falsehood and hide the truth while you know? (Quran 3:71)
.. | | |.. | |.. / | | | | |
q_7_| | . q_w_;_|_; _o_| ;___; |_;_)_| | |_8 | |_;
(_/ (_) / . ( . (_| ..
... | .. | | .. /.. || | | |
_o_;_; | q q_7_| | . q_o_;_)_; q |_D |_;_| |_;
( / (_/ (_) / / (_| . .
| ..
* . q_o_|_e_;
(_) /
And when Allah made a covenant with those who weregiven the
Book: You shall certainly make it known to men andyou shall not
hide it; but they cast it behind their backs and tooka small
price for it; so evil is that which they buy* (Quran 3:187)
| .. | . | | .. |c | | | . . | | . |
| q_; q | . _; ]_| | q |_;_;_o 4_|_| | ]_7 | | > | q
/ / (_).. (_/ .. /
. .. /.. | | |. | | . . .. | |.. / | |
4_; q_o_;_)_; |_| q w |_;_|_| 4_;_;_;_;_;_| ;___; |_;_)_| |
/ / (_/ ... .
|. c | .. c | |. | . . .
|_;_o_; 4_; | q _;_w | q _o_8 q_8_D s | q O q ]_;_;_9
. / / / ( / / / / / .
.. c | s . | | |..
* . q _;_w_; |_o w_;_;_9 |_|_;_|_9
(_) / / .. (_/ . ..
Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they
recognize their sons, and a party of them most surely conceal
the truth while they know (it)* (Quran 2:146)
| / . . |.. / | | |. .. | . | |
|_o_) 4_; q_9 _e_; ;___; |_;_)_| | _o_8 |_;_;_; | . _; ]_| |
/ / .. . ( .. (_)..
. |.. . | s |. | .
_o_8_;_o |_o_; _9 . | q _o_8_; |_;_; | . q_9 _e_;
( .. / (_) / ( . (_) / / ..
| .. | | .. / |
* . q_o_|_e_; _o_8 q q_7_| | . q_o_;_)_;_|
(_) / .. ( / (_/ (_) / ..
Surely those who conceal any part of the Book thatAllah has
revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but
fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the
day of resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall
have a painful chastisement* (Quran 2:174)
| | | | .. | | .. / . | | |
. _o 4_|_| | | _; | |_o . q_o_;_)_; . _; ]_| | . |
(_) (_| / (_) / .. (_).. (_)
| | |.. |. c .. c |.. / | |
|_|_;_|_9 |_;_o_; 4_; . q _;_w_; q ;___; |_;_)_| |
.. . (_) / / .. / .
| | | . | . | / | | /s | |
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( / . (_S (_) / .. /
| .. | | | | | | / | | |. | |
4_o |_;_o_| | _o q_; 4_|_| | _o_8_o_|_)_; |_| q |_;_| |
.. ( /.. ( .. / /
| | | . | /. | |
* _o_;_| | ;___; | ]_c _o_8_| q _o_8_;_) _; |_| q
( .. . ( / ( .. /.. /
I have shown in the first part of this series that whatever has
happened on Jews/Christians should happen similarly on muslims.
Although the sequence of events may not be the same (sooner or later
that the event in previous nations), they would happen, not exactly
but very closely.
(Of course there is another choice that the prophet of Allah has
lied. Obviously, a muslim does not accept such choice at all. Better
to think and learn from previous nations.)
One of behaviours of Jews/Christians is that they knew the truth and
they hided it. They knew the prophet of Islam very clearly and better
than their own sons, and they denied him. They knew that Allah is one
and everything was revealed by islam was true and they did not inform
their people of it. They kept their people in darkness in order to get
a good ride on them.
Unfortunately, this story is completely happened in islamic
environment. Scholars who knew the truth tried to hide it from their
people. When you say that such and such exists, people open their
mouth as if a new law is fallen. The true islam is unfortunately hiden
from the eyes of usuall people who have little access to the source
of traditions.
Others who hear the truth and confess to it, are afraid of revealing it.
It is good to warn ourselves that the promises of Allah is not a game.
When he implemens his plan, he will do as severe as he can, and Allah
is the hard punishing God.
**************************************************************************
From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Jews/Christians/Muslims (Part 3: Religious text books)
Another similarity among Jews/Christians/Muslims is about some of
theological deviations. When you open the old testement, the first
thing you read is:
And the God created humans in his image.
When you go further, you read a wrestling between this God and Jacob.
And other stuff.
You can locate in new testement that God, word and Jesus are one plus
Jesus is the son of God and so on. In Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim and
shiat sources (which were famous as "Israeelyyat" afterwards), you
can easily locate several similarities. Although there is no wrestling
between God and Jacob, there is a wrestling between Mouses and the
angel of death. The first sentence of the old testement was accurately
transfered to the book of Hadith. What went wrong?
In this article, I am trying to clarify one reason for such behaviour
in religious text books. It is one of the narrators. In my mind, there
are too many similarities between two people of two religions,
Christianity and Islam, Paul and Abu Huraira.
Abu Huraira Paul
1)- Abu Huraira was a Jew and | 1)- Paul was a Jew and became
became muslim. | christian.
|
2)- Abu Hurair saw the prophet | 2)- Paul saw Jesus in his vision,
only three years out of 23 | or in his dream (I do not care)
years of the prophethood of| It is very short time compared to
Mohammad (SAAWS). | the prophethood of Jesus (I guess,
| three years or so).
|
3)- Abu Huraira started | 3)- Paul started his preaching about
narrating about 30 years | 30 years after the disappearance
after the death of the | of Jesus. (I do not care why.)
prophet. |
(I do not care why.) |
|
4)- Abu Huraira was supported | 4)- Paul was supported by the present
by the present Government | government of his time.
of his time. |
|
5)- Abu Huraira narrated quite | 5)- Paul narrated quite a few sentences
a few traditions which were| which were taken from the old roman
very similar to Jewish text| theology, and Jewish theology of
books. | that time.
|
6)- Abu Huraira narrated a | 6)- Paul narrated a miracle narrated
miracle about himself which| only by himslef which was related
was related to the prophet.| to Jesus.
|
7)- All of Abu Huraira speeches| 7)- Paul narrated quite a few sentences
were related by the prophet| from the mouth of Jesus.
|
8)- Abu Huraira's narrations | 8)- Paul is now called "the father of
became the source of | christianity".
differences among muslims |
of that time.(Just to be |
polite to muslims.) |
About 40% of the theological differences among different branches of
Islam, from Sunni and Shiat to Sufism have come from the narrations of
Abu Huraira. (Shiat brothers should note that I am not talking about
practical differences right after the death of the prophet.) Such
estimation is my personal data as a person who has read both shiat and
sunni sources and others (such as Ahmadyya, and so and so).
Source for above claims??? Read the articles which were
sent to SRI about one month ago.
**************************************************************************
From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: What Muslims lack
> Article: 7387 of soc.religion.islam
> From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Well, I would like to have a chit-chat with a respectful man, a very
thoughtful muslim named as: Basaalat Ali. I would like to call him
Ali in my articles.
> What we call Islam nowadays is a lot more than the final message to
> all people that was sent to us from Allah. We have added
> interpretations on top of interpretations of interpretations. I do
> not know what a.faris' intent is in answering the article in the
> manner that he did.
Very nice paragraph.
> Nonetheless, I do think that "Islam" needs to change.
If I were you, I would have followed what you said above and would
have been precise to say:
I do think that the interepretation of "Islam" needs to change.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Is Islam the Shia/Sunni debate? Anyone reading SRI would think so.
I am sorry. People should be informed that the so called "debate"
between shiat and sunni comes to net every other month, or more. As my
records show, the first article on this was sent about one month ago.
That was from a SUNNI himself. About a few days (or I think one week),
SOME of SUNNI people kept firing at shiat with no shame. Then Shiat
started to answer these ignorant people.
It will not come to net if you moderators be careful when approving
the very first article. If any revolution should be seen in SRI, it is
>from the moderators first, among you.
> it has consumed some of the finest minds of dozens of generations.
> This part of Islam needs to change.
What I brought to SRI was thrown away hundred years ago. Shiat simply
does not care about this debate. Shiat has closed and patched this
debate forever. If you think that shiats are sitting in Iran finding a
better solution for this debate, you are wrong. The present and main
concern of shiat scholars in Iran is to locate sources and find the best
way of handling muslim society, or islamic government, such as
governmental issues, taxes, economy, and so on. They did not do that
before, and they realize how ignoring about this fact they were before.
They are coming to solve the problems of present society through islamic
sources. They have simply put such "debate" to the bookshelves. The
first book on the islamic government was written about 200 years ago.
Look at yourself, then.
> No. The simple fact is that we have allowed all this to happen to us.
> It happens because of the hatred we have in our hearts.
Very nice sentence, and many more nice paragraphs.
> Are we Muslims? Or are we too arrogant to learn from this? Do we
> have a monoploy on the faith of Islam?
> The real backwardness is to live out our lives amongst our own
> heresies and bidaa. We have already left islam. We need to return to
> it.
Again, good advices. Since you are not arrogant, and learn from
christians and jews faster than a muslim, I would like to bring one
example for you:
I saw an interview three nights ago. It was about a group
which were shaped three years ago. 75 christian scholars
from all over the world gathered again, this year. The official
name of this group is "Jesus Seminar Study". What they do and what
they have done? They bring several different sciences such as
archeology, history, phsychology, and many more. To do what?
They are reading the present NEW testament (which is referred in
this article as Bible) sentence by sentence. They verify which
sentence was spoken really by Jesus himself, and which one
was spoken by his followers. How others twisted the exact word
of Jesus. What do you think about the outcome of their search?
They announced that about 80% of the Bible is not from Jesus,
himself, but rather from a few writters some of whom came after
Jesus death. They announced that there is no single word truely
spoken by Jesus which says that Jesus is the son of God. There
is no single word which says that Jesus is God, or there are
three Gods. The announced, also, that Jesus was one prophet himself.
Is this a backward?
Your answer: No.
How? Are they not reading the history, and the Bible and
"wasting" their time on 2000 years ago?
Your answer: Yes.
How? Don't they understand the Bible better than thousand
years ago? Are you not happy with their outcomes?
That was about christians. How about Jews? Let me give you another
example. Perhaps, you would understand the meaning of backward better.
About 40 years ago, a great discovery occured around the dead sea, and
the findings on that area became famous as "dead sea scrolls." One is
peresently kept in Isreal musem named as "The Temple Scroll".
Although, the finding was related to Jews, it talks about a theology
which matches islamic theology more than the old christianity (as some
are claiming). If you read Quran, you will find some verses which are
referring to some verses of the old testemant. You can not find the
referred verses in the present old testemant. But these Quranic
references are found in the dead sea scrolls. One of the most important
part is named "The book of Enoch". Now
Is this a backward?
Your answer: No.
How come? These people are looking at the scrolls which were
written (as some claim) before the birth of Jesus.
Your answer: Yes.
How come? They have broken these contents of these scrolls
piece by piece, they are understanding their book better
than hundred years ago. How is this a backward?
My humble suggestion:
If muslims want to solve the present problems of islamic society,
they have to analyze what others have recorded hundred years ago.
Muslims have to sit and find out which narration (or Hadith) is
truely spoken by the prophet. (Obviously, Quran is complete, and
needs no verification). But the traditions need to be differentiate.
If muslims want to solve the present problems of islamic society,
they have to look at the INTERPRETATAIONs again. See what
muslims have eaten during the time. Why have muslims have accepted
from their scholars, (or should I say, islamic churches?). Why
muslims have trusted their scholars so much, and how muslims
have been deviated because of this trust.
If muslims want to help, they have to return to Islam. As you
said and I agreed with, what muslims have is NOT islam. What
muslims believe in is NOT islam. Islam is over there, sitting and
waiting for muslims to come and understand it. What muslims have
done instead was to trust some scholars, and carry their hatred
in their hearts, and FIGHT. This is what most people inheritated
from their fathers.
***********************************************************************
From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: the Shi'ites and Sunnis
> From gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu Mon Jan 17 15:46:22 EST 1994
> Article: 7892 of soc.religion.islam
> From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu
> Basically, a small number among the Sunni believe and claim that the
> Shia are non-Muslim; a number among the Shia hold a somewhat similar
> opinion of the Sunni.
As a person who belongs to that small group of shiat, I am declaring
that none of us has ever told that sunni is non-muslim.
Briefly about shiat:
1)- Shait says that "Logic" is very important and is a part of life.
As you eat, you must use the logic.
2)- The point is not that Ali-Ibn-Abitalib should have been the Caliph.
That is not the case any more. It is too late to choose Ali as the
first Caliph after the death of the prophet since it is almost 1350
years by now. (Even if all muslims, shiat and sunni, agree right
now that Ali must have been the first Caliph, nothing can be done.)
The point is that the true knowledge is transferred to muslims
through Ali and his sons, and other sources are not as reliable as
this chain. The point is to know that it is not too late to listen,
think, and obey these true sources of knowledge, Ali-Ibn-Abitalib
and his sons.
*************************************************************************
From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Health rules in Hadith books?
I am getting closer to realize what Islam says about health of human.
I strongly urge scientists to investigate the following important
traditions. I hope that when they get Nobel Prize on this, share it with
me (say %5 only).
I would be grateful if my sunni brothers and sisters tell me if they
really benefit these islamic laws or not. Thanks a lot.
-------------------------------------
-------
7.673:
-------
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let
him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-------
4.537:
-------
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you,
he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and the other has the cure for the disease."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-------
7.746:
-------
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "None of you should walk, wearing one shoe only;
he should either put on both shoes or put on no shoes whatsoever."
I understand that there might be some use not using any shoe, and more
advantage using both shoes. I do not understand where ONE shoe can be
applicable, and if not applicable at all, why it is mentioned anyway.
Thanks for your comments.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The traditions are taken from Sahih Bukhari:
The translation of the meaning of Sahih al-Bukhari
Arabic-English
Dr. Mohammad Muhsin Khan
Islamic University, Medina al-Munawwara
Kaze Publications.
1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)
Call Number(In library of Waterloo university): BP135.A124E54
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